The Boone Show
The Boone Show
The Boone Show - S5 E10 - Wren's Fran Campbell: 42 Years of Basketball and Life Lessons
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Fran Campbell reflects on his legendary 42-year coaching career at Wren High School and the impact he's had on generations of students and athletes as he announces his retirement.
• Teaching in the classroom for seven hours versus coaching for two hours each day
• Coaching multiple generations including his own grandchildren and seeing former players' children come through the program
• Balancing relationships with students in both classroom and coaching settings
• The challenges of today's parent involvement compared to years past
• Evolution of coaching style to adapt to changes in basketball including embracing the three-point line
• Winning the state championship in 2023 with a team-first approach rather than relying on superstar talent
• Player ownership in team success through creating scouting reports and taking leadership roles
• Developing a coaching tree with at least seven former players now coaching their own programs
• Creating a family-oriented program where players remain connected years after graduation
• The upcoming new transfer eligibility rule in high school basketball
"As I transition to retirement, I'll still be teaching part-time and will always remain a basketball junkie. I'm confident Coach (Derrell) Jackson is the right person to continue the legacy we've built at Wren." - Fran Campbell
With special guests Derrell Jackson (new Wren coach) and Blake Miller (voice of the Wren Broadcast Network).
Thanks for listening! Direct all inquiries to thebooneshow@mypulseradio.com.
Hey, good evening everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Boone Show on MindPulse Radio. Great show here tonight, as we've got a bunch of guests in the studio to talk about basketball, which is always cool when we're talking about sports, but talking about one-of-a-kind in basketball too, as we have as our very special guest the franchise, as Blake calls him, fran Camel, coach of uh wren high school for 42 years, just announced he's going to be retiring blue and golden here today yes, we do.
Speaker 1:And uh, his replacement is here daryl jackson, and blake is here, blake miller, graduate of this program one of my kids voice of the Wren Broadcasting Network and he's here because he's followed this team for several years now and obviously, at a turning point in the whole program that no one's known since the years that I was in high school, that's how long Fran Campbell has been around. He's been around for 42 years. I would have been going into my senior year, the first year that he coached at Brown. So amazing, and Coach, we'll just kick it off with that. Do you ever kind of just think back about how amazing of a run that is?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have. I have because when I see somebody and I go like they go yeah, I was a student of yours in 1983. I go well, I remember you, but you'll have to help me with the name. Yeah, so yeah. And it's really neat when you see some of these kids that you taught and, of course, players that you coached and you know they remember little details about you know events and stuff and it just makes it all come back to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, well, for people that don't know, did you have a question, holly?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say. You're probably at the stage now where you are coaching the children or the grandchildren of those that came through.
Speaker 3:Well, actually, I've coached all my own grandchildren and today's not a normal day but there's no track meet or anything. I've got grandchildren at Wren and Powdersville so it keeps me busy and Powdersville so it keeps me busy. But yeah, like a good friend of Coach Jackson's, wendell Rhodes, I coached him and his son, who teaches and coaches track at Wren now. So I've got, you know, a legacy within a legacy. So I've had, you know, uh, tom barrett and his children, bill white and his children all play, they all played. And uh, there's, you know, several others, that then all the franklins, you know what you said.
Speaker 1:There's 10 of them all together.
Speaker 3:I think something like that I think 13 legitimate franklins and and a couple that they brought in that aren't really Franklins but they live with them, so probably a total of about 16 at one time. Wow, but seven boys, wow, gosh, yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:Think about how many of those you've touched somewhere along the way, whether it be teaching or coaching, and then all of those that you've come in contact with that maybe didn't necessarily be a coach, maybe were a teacher at that point. That's a lot of legacy you've got.
Speaker 3:It is a lot and I'm grateful for it. Every time I think about how many kids, every time I think about how many kids you know, I can't even imagine what the total number of students I've taught over the years especially when you consider teaching like semester courses or quarter courses you know You're getting you know 300 or 400 a year and you do the math on that times 42, uh, that's a lot. And then you're talking about you know in in basketball. You're talking about you know, um, you know 15 or so a year. That's a lot, um. And then I was at greenville high for seven years.
Speaker 3:I still meet with some of those kids that are that are retired people now yeah I played golf with three guys from greenville high that I taught, and one of them's a federal judge, the other one's retired teacher. Wow, well they're, they're, they're all 63 years old, wow yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:Uh, we're gonna go to the phone lines. We have, uh, one of your former players who's turned into a pretty good coach of his own uh, austin anderson, I believe, is on the line. Hi, austin. Hey, how are you good, good, good, we're here with Coach Campbell, coach Jackson also here, and I just wondered if you could share maybe a little bit about your time with the coach way back when.
Speaker 5:What's up, buck? Hey, how are y'all Good? Yeah, I mean I learned a lot from Coach Campbell, all the way from relationship building all the way to just genuinely caring for your athletes. One vivid memory I have and he's always had a passion for the game, for his athletes, and I think that's never been a question about Coach Campbell. One vivid memory I have about Coach Campbell, though, is when we're in a scrimmage preseason. You know he's going after it with the referee, and the referee's trying to kick him out of the scrimmage, and he's just looking at the referee like, no, I'm not getting out of the scrimmage right now. So just that fight for your athletes is one thing. It's another thing that he's really taught me.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you've learned some sideline demeanor, because I see that sometimes you get a little active on that sideline.
Speaker 5:I have the active on that sideline I have now, the more experience, the more of a veteran coach he is, the the more he's you know, been, I guess, methodical, if you will, with these referees, and that's something I've got to learn and try to teach and try to learn from him, um, but yeah, I mean back in the day he really got after it. But uh, it's also one of those things as a player, you kind of wanted that from your coach, because that showed that, that showed that he cared.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Any other specific memories that you had, because you were on some pretty good teams.
Speaker 5:We were, I remember, going to you know, from the 8th grade, 7th grade up, going to PC camp with him. Once again, he did a great job of making that real family-oriented. It didn't matter if you were a JV varsity C team or whatnot, he had everybody going with him. Ever since Coach Campbell's had that program, it's always been a family-knit-type program. I think he's kind of hung his hat on that, because you still see it now, people coming back and helping him out. Coach Jackson played for him, coached for him, so he's coming back right there. It's a full full circle moment, but the full circle happens because of his performance as a coach and his love as a coach.
Speaker 1:When you start to last this long, obviously you have to have some sort of passion Coach, and obviously you have passion or insanity. Well, yeah, doing the same thing over and over again, yes, but it's special both you guys and Coach Jackson here as well to have that passion for the student athletes as well as the passion to try to win.
Speaker 5:Right, right, and it's a hard balance, but it's also a balance that you've got to have in the classroom but also on the court. If you don't show those kids that work ethic and you don't show those athletes and Coach Campbell always did a great job of showing those demanding excellence and greatness from his athletes I'm pretty sure his golf players probably felt the same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, you have a new thing going on In fact. You have a new thing going on In fact. We have a little like carousel here in the studio here of coaches, because you're headed over to Easley and we've got Coach Jackson who's headed from Easley to Wren and we've got Coach Fran who's headed to the beach.
Speaker 1:I know, that, of course. Obviously it's a good situation for you as we speak of your opportunity as Coach Jackson knows from being there for the last couple of years to get easily on the right track and winning ways.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we're going to try to. We're going to try to. Coach Jackson did a good job the past two years of really trying to get it back on his feet, so I'm just going to try to left over a way he's already picked up to where he's already left off of a great direction for that program.
Speaker 1:Well, best of luck to you. We appreciate you calling in and sharing a memory with Coach Fran, and we'll be talking to you again soon, at some point as you get that program rolling over there.
Speaker 5:Love you, buck Sounds good. Love you all. I hope you all have a good day, thank you.
Speaker 1:All right, that's Austin Anderson. Of course. We've had him on several times as coach of Powersville High School, moving over to Easley and, as mentioned, easley's coach for the last two years has been Darrell Jackson, and he is here in studio because he's moving over to the job he always wanted anyway, which was to succeed Coach Campbell. Tell us how all that came about. Was Coach Campbell just not leaving in time? You had to go somewhere else because he was just going to live forever in that job.
Speaker 3:It looked like it.
Speaker 1:But now you finally got it, so you've got to feel excited. You've worked with Coach Fran for so long anyway, and now to take the reins. I can imagine a bunch of feelings going through you right now.
Speaker 4:It is. It's still kind of a surreal moment. The reason I left me and Coach Campbell actually had to talk about it and he told me. He said you need to take that job. But it was never about me waiting for him, it was more so. Opportunity was presented to me, um, and and I felt like it was a golden one and I couldn't turn it down. Um, obviously, uh, my son was was about to be a ninth grader, um, so it involved him too, and I just thought it was the best situation for me and also for him now does.
Speaker 1:Is he staying over there at easily? Is he coming with you?
Speaker 3:no, no he's coming with me. That's what I thought.
Speaker 1:Come on, man he's and he's being a little modest here. He's a good player. He was like their leading scorer, was he not? He was. He led us in assistant steals. Yeah, he was. He was all region, yeah his freshman sophomore year.
Speaker 4:Um, this year was a little little rough. He hurt his ankle so he was out about five weeks of the season, um, which slowed him down some. But uh, he came back and obviously it changed our team yeah because we were. When he got hurt, we were seven and oh and so we, we took a hit, obviously, with your point guard going down, but he's super excited. He always made a comment All his siblings parents went to Wren, so he's excited to be able to graduate from Wren as well.
Speaker 1:There you go, coach Fran, you had the opportunity, as you've mentioned, to coach your kids, fran's kids. What are some of the challenges when you're coaching your kids and grandkids?
Speaker 3:Well, some of it, he's probably already learned it it easily. You can't make everybody happy, especially if your son's playing instead of somebody else's son. Uh it, it doesn't matter how good they are, it's you know, like I remember my son said to me. He says says Dad, I really want to play at North Carolina. I said, well, that's a nice goal to have. I said my goal for you is to be able to play good enough for Wren High School that I don't get fired. So we actually almost accomplished all of it. He played at PC instead of North Carolina, same blue and stuff, but he's still a north carolina fan uh, blake, you got something to add.
Speaker 6:You haven't said anything yet, I know I'm I'm looking at a mythological creature to my right yeah, a unicorn, these things don't exist.
Speaker 6:from my perspective, just being able to to grow up, it's so wild. Even looking at the 42 as someone that went all the way through the Renskull system, it just still doesn't make sense in my head. Because after watching the last three years, of course I watch you win a state championship. I watch you almost do it numerous other times in this last three-year period and it's like how does this guy get up for work every day and keep pushing guys that a guy like Baba Franklin, who he knows how talented he is but he knows I mess up? Frank Campbell's waiting on me at the bench. He's going to tell me what I did wrong, how to fix it. I just want to know your head space in the last decade or so, as this is coming to an end.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's like, if you talk to Coach Jackson when he played, or you talk to somebody else that played even earlier than that, that if you don't change as a person and a coach, the game is going to change, and if you don't change, you're going to get left behind, Like I was when I first started. There was no three-point shot and I was, like you know, pounded inside like everybody else and I dreaded the change and then when it got here, I loved it. So anytime there's a change, I look at it like it's just progress. Like you know, from now they're wanting to go to shot clock. I'm all in.
Speaker 3:I think it's good for the game, because you know it's supposed to be a fast-paced game. Uh, as soon as they cut the bottom out of that peach basket where the ball would go through, it started speeding up and we shouldn't do anything to to stop it. So I I'm in. I'm in favor of the. You know that I'm. I'm also in favor of that. I'm also in favor of I think we need to go with the circle underneath the basket for the charges for safety and also to speed up the game. Unclog everything where you can drive to the basket without somebody jumping in front of you.
Speaker 6:And then ask Rhett Warga if he can get another year and we can get him back. Yeah, get him back with that thing right there and he'll be good to go.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I think you have to change because you know life changes and if you don't like, I watched a thing last night on Bobby Knight and he was a great coach but he never changed and eventually that did him in. You know you can't do things the same way. I mean some of the crazy drills I had him do and he never questioned, he just dove on the floor and hit his head or whatever it was. You know kids are different now than you know. Like he never questioned anything. Now everybody questions everything, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I was going to ask. What have you seen in the last 40 years with your students changing both your students in the classroom, but more so, your students out on the field, out on the court. Where have you seen the most change in your kids? I know you've seen it in parents as well.
Speaker 3:I was going to say the most change I see is that is is the, the parents involvement in a bad way, like, um, like, just like when I coached him, never, he never questioned anything. Nobody in his age group never questioned anything. The parents didn't question anything. Now it's everybody's got a a floor, everybody's got because of of the media and everything else, social media, everybody's got a platform. Uh, and everybody gets to voice. You know, um, I told somebody when I retire officially I might get on Facebook or something, but right, now, I don't even get near it.
Speaker 3:I don't want to hear you know how bad I'm doing or how good I'm doing.
Speaker 2:And I'm sure that comes with your family as well. I'm sure your wife, children, all of those hear it just as much as you hear it.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's like my wife usually tries to sit like away so she doesn't hear. You know, and I know, like when you're coaching you can't make everybody happy. When you substitute, you're taking one child out, somebody's child out and putting in another person's child, and they don't see practice. All they know is my child is really good, he's a good kid. Everything else they don't see that and I think really it's the same way in a classroom. You know, like before if you said you know well he didn't turn his work in well would question it. Now that you, they won't prove well, well, here's the zero. You know. No, that's not enough. You got to show every little thing. Everything is questioned. You know, and everybody's got, you know, a voice.
Speaker 3:And I think you know when you, when you, you know there's a difference between supporting your child and defending your child. Supporting your child means you're giving them all the resources possible for them to be successful, defending them. Sometimes they're giving them a crutch and I just and it's like it's not just sports, it's in the classroom too. I mean I teach way more than I coach. You know, I'm coaching kids two hours a day and I'm what? Seven hours a day in the classroom and my salary is based on my teaching, not my coaching. The coaching is a supplement and it's like driving a bus or something. It's not. You know they can let you go anytime too, because it's a supplement. But I see the same thing in the classroom that you see in sports. I think they mirror each other. I think you know, if you're going to be a good coach, you have to be a good teacher first, and I think that's you know.
Speaker 3:Like I tell our kids, I said this gym is a classroom. You pay attention like it's a classroom, you act like it's a classroom. You pay attention like it's a classroom, you act like it's a classroom, you speak like it's a classroom. If you don't do it that way, then you're going to get the same consequences that if you're in my classroom and you're disrupting it. I said you're going to be gone and I think it's important to make sure they understand it. There's a certain way to act in a classroom and a certain way to act in. That gym is a classroom, that football field is a classroom, that track is a classroom. The language you use should be the same you use. It shouldn't change. It shouldn't be like we don't use profanity with them, around them nothing. And if they do, they're disciplined like it's a classroom violation.
Speaker 1:So Blake being the young man in the room compared to the rest of us. What do you think of that aspect of Coach Brandt? To me that's pretty impressive for a guy that's been around that long, has been able to adjust and has such a perspective about how players should play and such and the Bobby Knight example was great Didn't fall into that trap where Bobby Knight just frustrated himself to death and he had to get out of it. What do you think, as someone you know younger of age, seeing an older coach? Because a lot of times people will see the old heads on the sidelines and say, oh yeah, they're just going to play the old time basketball, but he's been one to adjust. How does that make two questions here? How does that make you feel as a young man towards that coach and do you feel like you could do a basketball podcast with him now that he's retiring?
Speaker 1:and you guys could just talk basketball every week 100%.
Speaker 6:He can talk Michael Jordan LeBron all day. We did it in history class. We can do it on a podcast.
Speaker 3:I added Bryce's jersey to my classroom yesterday.
Speaker 6:All right, we can talk Bryce McGowan's as well, but that Bryce McGowan's, trey McGowan's excuse me, bye-bye Franklin as well. It just shows you a respect for a guy that as a young guy you would look at and you're like they probably don't respect him. But he's done it for so long, proved it over and over. That leads it into respect. Also, he adds a guy in Coach Fox who's been a part of the really good run. I think also helped in that aspect. His son as well. Being on the coaching staff gives a little younger voice. It's like I said earlier everyone at Wren coming up through high school you instantly have a respect for Frank Campbell. But then once you watch him coach, it's like it's not just respect, it's like he's as good as anybody. So it's like you almost expect it from him to change with a game to be able to do it next year. I think even after he retired everyone kind of looked around like what are we talking about? No one knows life without him.
Speaker 1:That's impossible. And, Coach, why now to retire?
Speaker 3:Well, I kind of thought this was to be honest with you. I thought I would retire after I won the state championship, or after we won the state championship, but then I still had a grandson there.
Speaker 3:And I don't know. Just something special about coaching your own. And then in the meantime one of my own, pro Franklin, moved his son in, and so then I felt obligated to stay. And then the other thing was there were a couple of guys that were on the state championship team, that were sophomores, and I felt like I couldn't leave them hanging either. So then I kind of had in my mind that this was it, but I didn't want to say anything because I looked at what some people did, people that I'm not saying that I'm on the level of Dean Smith or Mike Szczeski doing the farewell tour thing, you know. I just thought as quietly as possible, I would just go in one day and say thank you very much. But this is it. But I will tell you, when I was thinking about this I was thinking about waiting until the basketball banquet, which was April 15th, on tax day, the old tax day, anyway.
Speaker 3:So here's what happened. I'm watching the news. My little pattern is I watch the news and four comes on first. I watch the sports on four, then I flip it to seven. It was on a Wednesday night. Wednesday night they came on with about the high school league to pass a new eligibility transfer rule and they have it printed up there and I'm looking at it and I'm thinking I'm not ready for this. You know, it could be good or it could be disastrous.
Speaker 3:And I thought so I went in the bedroom I told my wife. I said I'm thinking it might be time now and she said are you serious? I said yeah. So the next day I went in and talked to Stan and he said well, he said do you want to wait until the 15th? I said it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 3:He said I said I'll do it whenever you want. He says how about tomorrow? I said let me talk to the players I'm with tomorrow. So that was it. It happened that quick Like no indecision or anything that kind of told me you know, I'm going to have to adjust again. You know, and I'm 77 years old, that's asking a lot to you know, like I've done that before, I've done the whole AAU and tracking kids and just like Darrell, carrying them all over the place in my Zuzu Trooper, you know, up and down the road to Atlanta and Winston-Salem. Okay, I'm not, I'm a grandfather. I'm not ready to do that all over again. And I think that's what's going to happen. He's ready, he knows what it's going to be, he knows what it's going to take and it's going to take more around the clock type action to be able to compete. And he's the right man for the job. I'm excited for him.
Speaker 1:We'll talk a bit more about that in a minute, that new rule. But on the phone line we have our regular sports guy who's kind of skipping the sports end of it because he is a ren graduate, uh, zachary howard, and has watched a ton of ren basketball, just about everything ren. So I know he had uh some words he wanted to say to coach campbell go ahead, zach hey how y'all doing I'm doing well. How are you?
Speaker 7:doing good. Coach campbell probably don't remember me. I mean, he knows my face. Anybody can remember this thing. Oh yeah, it's only a mother could love, absolutely uh hey, I'm a high school sweetheart, so I've been with my high school sweetheart since high school, since my junior year, so, um, so she could love it too yeah, there we go but, there's somebody for everybody stay with
Speaker 7:her yeah I didn't have the privilege to play for Coach Campbell, but I did have the privilege to have him as my US history teacher my junior year. And let me tell you something Every school needs a Coach Campbell, a Coach Fran Campbell, whether it's a teacher, whether it's a basketball coach, because, I'll be honest with you, I didn't know if the man was ever going to retire. I mean, I didn't know if the man was ever going to retire. I mean, I just think he's that passionate about the sport, about the players, about the students. Everybody needs a Coach Campbell. And, like I said, I never had the privilege to play for him, but I did have the privilege to have him as a teacher.
Speaker 7:And the funny thing is, I guess, a memory I have. I don't know if he remembers, but I'll be out of school, what? 13, 12, 13 years this year, and so this was junior year. So about 14, 15 years ago, we was doing a PowerPoint in a class and I forgot what the. He did mention LeBron James. I'll add to Blake. He did mention a little bit of LeBron James. I'll add to Blake. He did mention a little bit of LeBron James when we were in class, but our PowerPoint. He was clicking on the lesson and then on the bottom corner I think it was the Xavier, something for Xavier men's basketball. I can't remember what it was, but then after that he went on a spill about what he'd done with Xavier and I don't know if we ever got to the lesson that day or not.
Speaker 3:Well, listen, Zach, you're wrong. If you don't think, I don't remember you. The other thing is is like everybody says well, he gets off subject. Listen, I'm constantly working, Getting off subject is part of the game, and if you remember that, then you're going to remember something of history too.
Speaker 7:Absolutely. I will say this and then I'll get out of here, but Eli White was in my class. Eli White was in my class and he now is a starting center fielder for the Atlanta Braves.
Speaker 3:Yes, you were in a classic class of US history because it was like we had some of the best students and worst students in the same room.
Speaker 7:Well, you didn't put me with the worst students. No, I did not.
Speaker 3:No, no, I did not. But yeah, I remember Eli being in there. He was a lot quieter than you.
Speaker 7:Yeah, absolutely. What's that man? I'm a quiet man. It is funny, though, because what made me think about that and think about this today was my sisters. We have a family Facebook chat and my sisters, one of them graduated with Eli Wilson. Am I saying that right? The tight end?
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, he was a great player.
Speaker 7:He was drafted in the NFL, and so I said yeah. I said you know, it's a small world, because I graduated with Eli and he was in my US history class, so just a small world, but, Coach Campbell, congratulations. There'll never be another Coach Campbell, and I wish you the best. I do have to ask, though we were at the state championship when we played I'm trying to think who it was and we had the lead and had Clyde Trapp on their team that went to Clemson.
Speaker 3:Yes, that would be Laura Richland. Yes, and do you remember the newspaper thing?
Speaker 2:How am I going to forget that?
Speaker 3:Thanks for bringing that up, Zach.
Speaker 1:What was it? Tell the story now. Yeah, I got to hear it.
Speaker 7:Hey, y'all have a good one.
Speaker 1:Hey, tell the story. Well, I don't remember much of the story now. Yeah, I got to hear it. Hey, y'all have a good one. Hey, tell the story.
Speaker 7:Well, I don't remember much of the story, I just remember Wren was winning, we were winning pretty good. And I remember telling my dad that's Clyde Trapp, he's going to play for Clemson, you know he's pretty good. And this is when we had Trey McGowan drop, because Bryce is the younger brother, so because Bryce is the younger brother, so we had Trey McGowan and Wren was winning. Wren was, I mean, I guess, about 10, 15 points and Lower Richland was at the free throw line and the entire bench picks up newspapers like they're reading, like they're not even paying attention, and after that I know this is a terrible memory for Coach Campbell- it is.
Speaker 7:But after that Lower Richland goes on like a 20 to like 3 run and ends up winning the game. And everybody you talk to I'll ask them you watch that game? Yeah, they lost the game because of the newspaper incident. I will never forget that. Never forget that. So I didn't mean to bring that bad memory up, Coach Campbell.
Speaker 3:You did bring up a bad memory but hey, it's a memory.
Speaker 7:I wish you the absolute best man. Everybody needs a Coach, Fran Campbell. And for Mr Boone, go Braves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Thanks, zach, thanks for calling. Yeah, he calls into our show every week we talk about sports. And he said today he texted me and said I'm not really going to talk about sports because I know you've got a lot to talk to a coach about, but I just want to give some nice words and it's good to hear from him. It was a great story.
Speaker 2:He's a character, for sure. It's a great story.
Speaker 1:He may not remember anything from your history class, but he's got the newspaper story.
Speaker 3:You're right, he's got the Eli White sitting next to him, who was a good student.
Speaker 2:Eli White sitting next to him, who was?
Speaker 1:a good student. Maybe, that's how he got through there.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I think the relationships you have with students is as important, if not more important, than what you have with the players. You spend all this time with your players. I think I've really strived to have relationships with the students and then when I have a player in my class, I do everything possible not to treat them like different.
Speaker 3:I do everything possible not to treat them like different, like not give them basically any advantage at all, because when you go in the classroom it's not the same as the basketball court, so everybody's equal there there, and I got to make sure I don't, you know, like let them do something that I wouldn't let another student do and I I think the relationships I have with the students is is far longer lasting maybe than the basketball, because, like the guy that works in my car, he didn't play basketball. The guy that does my electrical work didn't play basketball. They all went to Wren and I all taught them history or something. But I have relationships with them, just like I do my players, and I think that's that's how you stay in it this long. Otherwise, if, if all it is is coaching basketball or all it was was teaching, I don't know if 42 years would have been possible. But when you look at it the way I look at it, as far as I'm an educator that coaches basketball- yeah, and in class.
Speaker 1:You know, holly, in class you can't put people on the bench. I mean, they're all kind of they're equal.
Speaker 2:That's right, although you want to.
Speaker 3:Some of them you want to put under the bench.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly. But I had a question going back to that new rule that you were talking about. Just real quick, while we have blake here and uh, coach jackson, it's almost like the portal for high school now, with uh kids going all over the place to wherever they want to go to high school. Blake you start with this, and then I want to hear what coach jackson thinks about that changing playing field that you know you have to deal with now to be able to get the best team on the court.
Speaker 3:He's jumping in with both feet, yeah, exactly Go ahead.
Speaker 6:I won't let Coach Jackson or Coach Campbell take the heat. This is my take. This is something that I think a lot of high school coaches in all sports know across the state is this is a rule that they are implementing, but it's been happening. That's, I think the problem with most people in their head is like okay, we're just making something that was kind of in the shadows be okay now, which is like as someone that's younger, it's kind of something of putting everyone back on an even playing field where no one's going to get the advantage of. We can take your players, but you can't take our players. Now everyone's up for grabs again.
Speaker 6:Almost like he talked earlier about a transfer portal. I think in high school basketball it's going to help teams like over in or west side that have been good at basketball, and then the teams that you see at the bottom. It could hurt a little bit more if they're losing their best player year in and year out. So I'll let Coach Jackson piggyback off that, but I think basketball high school basketball at least is hopefully for the better after something like that.
Speaker 4:I do agree with Blake. I think it's implemented to kind of level the playing field a little bit, but also obviously playing for Coach Campbell and coaching with him. A place like Wren is a lot different than other places. We've always had a family atmosphere, strong community, a lot of pride. So I think obviously I mean we may get a transfer or two, but a lot of our kids will be homegrown just because of that community pride and self-pride and the way we build our kids from our rec program on up. Like Coach Campbell, he used to referee the rec games and then as I came up I refereed with him.
Speaker 4:I was a high school student refereeing rec league games, and you don't see that a lot of places, just like at kids camp, he's had for what? 20, 30 years, 38 this year, wow, and I wasn't fortunate to go to it but I did work it. And so when you have things like that, I just think like he's talking about other places how it affects them a little more. A lot of our kids they're blue and gold through and through. They're born that way. They come up that way. I was fortunate the same way Coach Campbell. He used to pick me up when I was in diapers. Our story goes all the way back to basically my birth. So I just think it's going to affect some places in different ways. But but I know at wren it's a lot different. It's a lot different, um, and I'm proud that I was a part of it as a kid and a player and I was there as an assistant coach and now as the head coach yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, like he says the the times they are changing. They always are, and athletics are seemingly changing even quicker nowadays with, uh, all the new ways to get money talking mainly about college and all that but of course, the recruitment process now, when they're coming to your high school and recruiting Blake, as you're big on with, like the draft this past weekend, and all that this new rule of course plays in a lot to that of where the major schools are really gonna get the exposure yeah, now I like to.
Speaker 6:I tell austin, our media guy I ran a lot is we're. We're not just giving these kids a platform to play sports. A lot of the times, kids may have a different family situation than others. We're're their marketing team. We are the only people that are going to talk about these kids. If no one else nationally or statewide is going to talk about them, we've got to be the guys to talk about them. Give them a platform, be like he talked about earlier with social media, their voice sometimes, because they can't be their own Right.
Speaker 3:And of course he also gives them nicknames and stuff. Yes, he does.
Speaker 1:I get envious of some of the nicknames you come up with. I was like man, I could never come up with that.
Speaker 3:That was a good one, Blake.
Speaker 1:From Piedmont, but I did want to ask you Coach too, because I'm curious have you ever sat down and thought about your coaching tree? How many people have coached with you that are now in charge of other programs? I mean, obviously you've got one sitting next to you, um, but there's got to be a bunch of them out there yeah, there I would say probably seven or eight.
Speaker 3:That are some of them no longer coaching them. You know I've been at so long some of them are out. They've had nice careers, they've retired, yeah uh but uh, you know, just um, I I don't know, I I'd say like, as far as coach, I'd say seven or eight, but I I'm actually maybe more proud that I think we've developed more ministers than we have coaches.
Speaker 4:And I think that's.
Speaker 3:You know like I had a team like in 86, I think there was three kids that became ministers, wow, yeah. So I just think we have a family-type atmosphere and you know we basically stick together through it all. And you know, like Darrell's best friend is a teammate who wasn't a very good player, but they were like best friends and they still are, and he's in Atlanta, georgia, and like it just Community. It's a community you have that ends up going like to Texas and to. You know like Oklahoma and stuff. You know like where they, but they still keep in touch with each other. You know like Oklahoma and stuff. You know like where they, but they still keep in touch with each other. You know, and you know it's just.
Speaker 3:I think, basically the atmosphere we've tried to have at Wren just keeps growing. You know they're having kids and it can't be a too bad a place where so many of them move back here. But, yeah, my son included, I think. On the team he was on I think there was Richie, and there was three on the same team with my son my son being one of them that were ministers and Chad Campbell was a minister at Mount Pisgah.
Speaker 3:I mean people thought with his last name we were father-son combo back in the early 90s. But yeah, it's a lot of family, a lot of people like Johnny who is— who we're hoping to hear from here in a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's all we're hearing from. He's a little late.
Speaker 3:But yeah, he's going to be a minister of some sorts. I don't know what, but he did a pretty good job of preaching in our locker room. I can tell you that. I know you're not supposed to have it in your locker room but, we're old school when it comes to that.
Speaker 1:And a little segue on that to that championship team. He really became a leader, didn't he? During that process, it seemed like that whole year that team was developing. It seemed like at the beginning of the year Blake, you can speak into this, but we were talking to Johnny in class all the time that you know he didn't even think they were really that good, but they just kept getting better and better and better as the year went on and, lo and behold, they win the last game of the season, which is what every team wants to do, and Johnny just became a real leader. And looking back on some of those videos of the games and the celebrations afterwards, he's all around congratulating it. And he was the the outstanding player, right. Um, just an incredible season there in 23. How is that different from so many near misses that you had in other years?
Speaker 3:it made it sweeter yeah it really did and and to have it with that team which you, which you could say was not talent-wise as good as some of the other teams, but team-wise they were the best team. What does Michael Jordan say? It's not the talent, it's the team that wins. The most talented doesn't always win, but the team that plays together will win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a perfect example of it that year because nobody thought at the beginning. Blake, couldn't you say that. I mean, they didn't have a superstar on that team.
Speaker 6:Going into that year you kind of felt like, okay, you just don't know what it's going to be, because you're coming off the McGowan's kind of era of basketball and it's kind of man Wren's been at the top of the mountain point feels like multiple years in a row.
Speaker 6:We don't know much about this Johnny Wiseong kid who's going to play forward, who's played a year before but maybe didn't show off his true talents until his senior year. A guy like Jacob McQueen who I wish I was lying didn't know he was on the basketball team until I was told that I was going to commentate basketball for Wren and find out he's another one of those senior leaders. And then you just have these three kind of in-the-wind sophomores that maybe they'll pan into something, maybe they won't, and it ends up being Brock Cherry, wett Worga and Cal Godfrey who've become the focal points of a state championship team Wett Worga and Brock Cherry hitting maybe the four biggest free throws in rim basketball history. Yeah, that team going into the year. You didn't feel like it was up to the challenge but, as you said, developed into something.
Speaker 1:Just kept winning and you know, some of the games weren't the prettiest thing, but they just kept winning and that's like you said. You said, coach is believing in each other and having each other's backs and that's why those kind of seasons are just really special, right even if they hadn't won the championship, it would have been really special it would have.
Speaker 3:Uh, I just think that they, um, because of the, the leadership of those two seniors, especially Johnny. Johnny's a leader of men, whether it's, I don't care what it is, it's a picnic or whatever it is he's a leader Even in college. You know he's, this was his sophomore year, but he was a leader of the team at CIU, but he was a leader of the team at CIU. So you know, your leader doesn't have to be a senior, your leader just has to be a person who everybody respects and nobody questions their work ethic.
Speaker 3:That's all you have to have. You don't have to have anything else. If you're just that, then you can lead. And sometimes that's a difference between a good team and a great team and that was a difference for us in 2023 was we had that leadership, that always positive attitude, you know, to the point where sometimes I had to calm things down. You know like you know we're pretty good, but you know we can be beaten you know, if we don't do everything we're supposed to do.
Speaker 3:He'd look at film and he'd come back and he'd say, oh, they're not very good. I said Okay. I said you do the scouting report and I'll do the scout report and then we'll compare. So that's what we did the whole second half of the season. Whoever we played next, he'd do the scout report, I'd do the scout report, we'd compare the two and we'd all find our own little flaws in it. But it also gives the more ownership the players have in a team, the farther your team's going to go when they're responsible for the practice, when they're responsible for the practice, when they're responsible for the locker room. So I don't have to go in there and police the locker room. I don't have to If they do that themselves. That's part of the ownership. If all I do every time I do the scout report and give it to them, they don't appreciate it as much as when they do it.
Speaker 3:They did it themselves, Took ownership yeah, take ownership in it and they're responsible, like we assign, and we say, okay, you're going to guard Blake, number 12. You give me the scout report on number 12. You give me the scout report on number 10 or whatever it is. Everybody's got to and we'll get that together, and then it means more to them than I just do it all for them. That's right. So they pay attention a little bit more to the scouting report when they're invested in it. I think also it gets them ready for the next level. If they're able to play on the next level. They already know how to break down film. They already know how to do a scout report. They already know how it's all done and therefore they're, they're, they're ready, you know and they.
Speaker 3:They get input in the, in the practice plan. They want to know what we're going to do today, you know, and and if, if they think there's something we need to work on, then all they got to do is tell me and we'll put it in there in some form of what we need to do.
Speaker 1:When, of course, you won it all in 23,. Was there any point in your career such a great career, and that was the first one, was there first championship? Was there any point that you were wondering if it would ever happen? Or you doubted yourself at all? Or did it matter that much, as long as you just had great teams to finally get that championship leading up to it? Was there any wonder if it would ever happen?
Speaker 3:40 years. Okay, well, the first time we went to the state championship game was 1994. Okay, and it was, I guess, an underrated team, kind of like this last one in 23.
Speaker 3:this last one, uh, in 23, and the I didn't know whether we'd get an another one after that one, because we we went there and we played eau claire high school, who was number six in the country in usa today, and they had two nba guys on the team, had Jermaine O'Neal and Bud Johnson, seven-footers, and we're playing 3A basketball and that's who we have to play.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking Lord thank you for letting us get this far. What next?
Speaker 3:I'm thinking I even had the pastor from Siloam Baptist Church. He asked could he speak to the team? I said, sure, pastor, just help yourself. And he gave a speech on crossing the Rubicon. That's how far the gap was and somehow we stayed with him and we ended up losing by six, but we hung in there.
Speaker 3:But I thought what a great opportunity to get the state championship and you're going to play probably the best high school team in the history of the state of South Carolina. That was our choice, yeah, so yeah. At that point I'm thinking I mean, what's the use of getting there if that's what you've got to do? I mean my goodness. But no, I never entered the coaching profession with the idea of, man, you know, win a state championship or you're not worth anything. It's like, you know, in the NBA, you know, they always say you know you have to have a ring or else you know you haven't won a thing. So getting it was awesome, it really was.
Speaker 3:But if we didn't win, I could have dealt with that, because I knew there was nothing more we could do than we did. You know, I mean we couldn't have prepared any harder, we couldn't have done anything different and you know you feel better when you go in a game if you know you've done everything you can do to be ready. And our saying is if you're ready then you don't have to get ready. So we were ready and we were ready. You know, we try to be ready every time we play. That way you don't have to get ready, so that I mean I could have dealt with it.
Speaker 3:You know, and it's the first time in all these years like the hardest thing to do at the end of the season is go in that locker room and thank your seniors and say goodbye. You know that's the hardest thing. So all these years, that one year, you know, we didn't have to say goodbye, we didn't have to say goodbye, we didn't have to. You know, we came back to the school. I remember riding back to school and Jason McQueen said Coach, can we cut down the nets when we get back to school? I said you're darn right, we can.
Speaker 3:We'll cut both of them down if you want to, because the high school league won't let you cut them down.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:You know, because they're afraid there's going to be a fight or something. The only cut them down. You know because they're afraid there's going to be a fight or something. You know the only fight we'd have had was who gets the cut first, right? But yeah, so we went back and cut the nets down. Then, somewhere during our stretch, johnson says we're going to cut our hair. I said, coach, are you in? I said hey, I'm in. I remember that he called the lady that cuts his hair and she came up there that night and cut her hair. My wife's going, she didn't know. Somebody said after I'd already had it cut. She said you better call Debbie and tell her you got your hair shaved. I said after I'd already had a cut. She said you better call Debbie and tell her you got your hair shaved. I said why? I said it's no big deal. She says you know at the time you're 74 years old.
Speaker 3:You know, I said not tonight, I'm not. I said I'm a kid. So yeah, it was funny. I kept it like that for a long time. I liked it.
Speaker 1:Well, we've got to wrap up here. We're running a little over time because I keep texting Johnny to call. I don't know whether he's asleep or what's going on, but I did want to ask you before we go. You know what's next. You're still teaching part-time. What's next for you?
Speaker 3:To be honest with you, I still like teaching, I like being around kids. So I'm going to do that and you know like I'll. I still haven't got to where I can like I'm not, like I'm a basketball junkie and I'll be that way until I die. So like I watch the NBA games. You know a lot of people don't like the NBA, but I do, I like it, I like watching it. You know I have to kind of break myself a little bit this time of year because there's so many games on. I could be like they'll start on a weekend, they'll start like 1.30, and then the last game's at 10.30. Well, I do have a life and somewhere in there I go like well.
Speaker 6:I can play golf during the Cleveland game.
Speaker 3:I can play golf during the Cleveland-Miami game. That gives me four hours right there. Then I can be back and watch the Lakers and the Soda, or whatever.
Speaker 1:You're not missing anything in the Cleveland-Miami series. No, no, that in the Cleveland-Miami series. No, no, that's the other thing I'm thinking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like and I, because of my son being in California for 10 years, they're Lakers. And then I worked LeBron's camp for about 10 years, so I'm a LeBron guy, so I'm watching the Lakers and now they traded for Luka. It's a pretty good watch, you know. So I'll still be a basketball junkie. I mean, here's the crazy thing. I'm watching something and I'm going like what'd they just do there Like NBA game going, and I'll go YouTube.
Speaker 3:I'll look it up and I'll go like like I watched the last second play and I'll go found it on YouTube. Looked, I said, man, that's pretty good, you know, um. So if, um, I, I can't keep from doing that, I can't you know um coach. I'll be a I'll be a coach. It'll be on my tombstone coach I I can't help that, uh, but I know we have the right person to—.
Speaker 1:No pressure at all. No, no pressure.
Speaker 3:Listen, he's played a lot of basketball, he's coached basketball. The pressure is all internal for him.
Speaker 1:And he's been on that sideline with you for a long time.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's what I'm saying he knows what it takes and he knows the way we have to play for us to be successful at Red. There's no other way we can play it. We have to play it the way we play. He knows that and he's not going to accept anything less than that. That's what I feel good about. I feel good that the same things that I preached all those years when he was a player and a coach he's going to speak the same message because he's a part of the message.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, that's a great way to end it, but we do have one last segment that we do with all of our guests, and that is our recommendation segment. There are two areas. This has become popular because it helps me find new places to eat and new books to read and movies to watch. So we want to ask We've got three guests here tonight, so, Blake, you'll be in on this too. We ask first, entertainment If there's any entertainment that you can recommend a book that you're reading, something that you're streaming binging, a movie that you're watching, something like that, some sort of entertainment. And then we'll come back around and ask you about food, whether it's something, a new recipe that you found, or a lot of times it's a restaurant and a particular dish that you like at that particular restaurant. So, Blake, we'll start with you on the entertainment thing what can you recommend to our listeners?
Speaker 6:I'm probably the worst person to start this off.
Speaker 1:That's why I started it.
Speaker 6:I don't know if everyone is a NASCAR fan, but this past weekend a guy named Cletus McFarlane ran in an ARCA race, and he is exactly what you think about when you think of NASCAR racing, and he has a YouTube. You can search it. And they took a trip from all the way I don't know somewhere in the southeast all the way to Talladega with Greg Biffle, who's a really famous NASCAR driver, and they buy $5,000 RVs and put like, really like, drag race engines in them and drive them all the way to Talladega, race them on dirt tracks for five laps. It is a very high-quality watch if you get around to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, coach Campbell, some form of entertainment you can recommend?
Speaker 3:Well, I tell you, I told you, 30 for 30, Bobby Knight. You would really enjoy it, because at least you have a little bit of age where you remember what Bobby Knight was like. I was mesmerized last night watching that. I got my own shows I like, but I just threw that in there.
Speaker 1:What other shows do you like? I'm curious.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm a history person, so I like historical things and I also like suspense. I do the Netflix series and I do police detective series and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:That's what I like. All right, that's cool. A lot of good documentaries out there historical stuff and all that. That's very interesting. All right, coach Jackson.
Speaker 4:All right, piggyback on Coach Campbell. You know he's my coach. We always went on Christmas tournament trips. He always took us somewhere historical. I did see the movie Centers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you like that? I've heard a lot about it. Most people like it Some people said it was all right.
Speaker 4:I mean it's got some things in it but very historical and a lot of subliminal messages in the movie. It's more than just the movie, to be honest, like really a lot of interesting things in it and, like I said me always been around him. It takes place in Mississippi, 1930s. It's a lot of different things going on, but I do the show I watch is they're Irrational and it's about a professor and he's talking about police. So the FBI, they use him to help solve crimes and he talks about irrational behavior.
Speaker 4:And that's how he solves it all Really good show.
Speaker 3:It is good I watched the one with numbers, where the guy solves it and then, there's another one on I think it's on Apple. I love the Ted Lasso.
Speaker 1:Bang. Yes, that was my favorite.
Speaker 3:There's nothing compared to that. There's another one on there I'm trying to think it's about a mathematician, almost like, where he's got a board full of and he's coming up with some kind of theory about what like. He's figured out a way that everybody is like messing with our minds, you know, and so they're afraid he's going to, so now they're hunting him down. He's having it's like crazy. I like some of the Apple TV stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they've got some good stuff on there, it's really good.
Speaker 3:My problem is, if I start watching it, I go like, well, let me get one more. Yeah, exactly, and before you know it it's 2 o'clock in the morning. It's 2 o'clock in the morning and you've got to get up at 7.
Speaker 1:And then you're also mad at yourself because you binged the whole thing and there's no more to watch. So it's like ah got nothing to look forward to. All right, blake, let's move on to food. I know you're a foodie from way back. He used to do a show on this radio station called the Meat Locker, where they would talk about food and sports, so I know this guy is.
Speaker 6:I'm going to take this opportunity to shout out a guy that I went to high school with. So it's a small business. It's Rory's Pizza. It's in Easley, I don't know the address, rory played at Ren.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Rory.
Speaker 6:He played basketball at Pattersonville, I think before he transferred to Wren. He's a small business.
Speaker 3:You're talking about the son. Yeah, you're talking about the dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the son.
Speaker 6:He's got his own pizza business. I believe he also sells the donuts as well beside it. But it is really good. It's got butter crust pizza. It's definitely something that everyone's probably that's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good. So that's where is it located. It's in easily.
Speaker 6:You can definitely search on facebook powder spill.
Speaker 1:Oh well, it's a fine line there yeah, they're all on top. Exactly it's right by old penalty road, yep all right, coach, uh, give me a food recommendation I go.
Speaker 3:I usually go to to Coach Jackson for the recommendations.
Speaker 4:I do have one yeah he's got.
Speaker 3:It depends on the city you're in. Like, if I'm going to Spartanburg, then he always tells me I need to go to Ike's.
Speaker 2:Ike's. Oh yes, ike's, they're fries.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh yeah, they're fries.
Speaker 4:Oh yes, their fries, oh yeah, way better than the Beacon the other one in Spartanburg is what.
Speaker 3:Waze. Waze is a beaten three place it's really good. And then, of course, the Beacon. We used to take the team there anytime. We went to Spartanburg and we had a guy helping us named Pete Beasley and he's deceased now, but he was like awesome, just went everywhere with us. But he couldn't stand to go in there, because when you go in there, the guy that takes your order hollers at you, he goes what do you have?
Speaker 5:What do you?
Speaker 3:have Next? Next, what do you have? And he'd make him all nervous. So he'd tell me he says I want the cheeseburger.
Speaker 1:He said I'm going to go sit down. All right, that's a couple of it. When we're up that way Getting Spartanburg, how about you, coach?
Speaker 4:Firebirds. It's right on Woodruff Road.
Speaker 1:They have the best philly cheesesteak oh, there you go, now you're speaking my language.
Speaker 3:There you go. One in easley is good. What's up? Inkies, inkies?
Speaker 4:inkies, been there, been there yeah, firebirds right on woodruff, road okay really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, inkies, those guys are from philly right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the whole point, yeah have you tried uh dave's hot chicken or whatever over on woodruff they have. They have a Philly.
Speaker 1:Do they?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Chicken is very hot.
Speaker 3:I will say that.
Speaker 1:All right, well, that'll about do it for the show. I mean, we could go on for another hour or so talking, but, coach Campbell, congratulations on your semi-retirement. I know you haven't made it official, official and I know you'll be doing some other things, but whatever you do, I know you haven't made it official, official and I know you'll be doing some other things, but whatever you do, I know it's going to be good. So thank you for everything you've done for all the student athletes that have come through Rand. They've been blessed. You talk about community. It starts with having a coach that's there for a long time, that cares about them, that keeps that community growing, and you've done great things beyond 738 wins, um and it's. It's just been an honor to have you here today thank you very much.
Speaker 3:I've I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I always like a chance to talk and coach, uh, daryl jackson, who is now the new ren basketball coach. Uh, congratulations on getting a job that I know you've wanted for years and you'll be stepping in there. And, yeah, he's right, you're stepping in for a legend, but you've worked beside him for years, so it's probably the most comfortable transition they could possibly have there at Ren High School. So congratulations to you, and I'm sure we'll have you on talking about basketball in the future. Thank you All right, and Blake, thanks for stopping by Always come by when you need me yeah.
Speaker 1:So good to see you. We'll see where the REN broadcast network goes from here. And yes, Holly.
Speaker 2:I just want to thank you, for I know that we had talked in the past where we've had some student issues, and you were always very supportive of our decisions here making sure that students follow through here as well as follow through on a court, and that makes a big difference. So we appreciate that.
Speaker 3:I think that a coach has a lot of leverage.
Speaker 2:You do.
Speaker 3:And you know, basically teachers should take advantage of that. You know we try to encourage that.
Speaker 3:You know like their first role is a student, so let's make sure they're. And it's going to be the same way with Coach Jackson. He's not going to play around with that. It's not going to be an option to misbehave. It's not going to be an option not to turn your work in. That's not the way you know we're trying to teach them to be an option to misbehave. It's not going to be an option not to turn your work in. That's not the way we're trying to teach them to be good young men and citizens. And that's as the saying goes. It's non-negotiable, that's right.
Speaker 2:Well, we appreciate it and we look forward to great things for you, Coach Jackson.
Speaker 1:Yes, and, by the way, Blake Coach Jackson does not look like the guy you want to mess with, so I think they'll be very serious.
Speaker 6:We'll see how post-game coaches show.
Speaker 1:Alright, thanks again, guys. Next week we have Robbie Rotron from Palmetto High School on the next episode.
Speaker 3:Student teacher for me. Oh really, yes, of course. So make sure you bring that up.
Speaker 1:Tell him he was a little unsure how it was going to turn out. I guess he's all right, we'll see. I guess he's overcome it.
Speaker 3:One of the two.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening or watching the Boone Show tonight. Pleasure to have you. We'll talk to you again next week.